Educated Climber.com

One-Handing (is the Devil…?)

By 35 Comments

 

Hoping to bring some much needed perspective to this highly controversial and divisive issue…

“If you waste your time a talking
To the people who don’t listen,
To the things that you are saying
Who do you think’s gonna hear?
And if you should die explaining how
The things that they complain about
Are things they could be changing,
Who do you think’s gonna care?
There were other lonely singers
In a world turned deaf and blind,
Who were crucified for what they tried to show.
And their voices have been scattered by the swirling winds of time,
‘Cause the truth remains that no one wants to know”

– Kris Kristofferson 

To Beat The Devil

 

Climb high, Work smart, Read more.

– Patrick

 

Comments

  1. Good to hear your podcast on one handing. I work alone so I did not know it was such a hot topic. I usually use a handsaws for most branches then, a electric at times. Homeowners appreciate less noise! I’m thinking the reason a chainsaw may cause cuts more than a handsaw( if that is even true) is that it will run along the branch like it’s on wheels over to the other hand. Whearas a hand saw doesn’t. Or cant, really.

  2. Carelessness is much worse, and causes many more accidents, than ‘dangerous’. Like you said, chainsaws themselves are very dangerous, but we live with that ‘danger’. One handing is simply a way of using a dangerous tool that happens to be necessary sometimes. If someone doesn’t ever want to ‘one-hand’ because it’s dangerous, fine, don’t do it. Go about your business and let others go about theirs. Many people use a power saw with both hands carelessly, THEY are the real danger, to themselves and to others. Many people use a small power saw one-handed and never are a danger to anyone.

  3. Humor me for a moment and imagine that you are a factor worker at the turn of the 20th century. (1900)

    Your job is to operate a huge hydraulic press to make a stamped plate. You have to place a lump of metal in the press by hand and then pull a lever. This is the only lever and means by which to operate the press and you alone control it. You must place your hand and arm into the press to place and retrieve the plates. The press operates at very high pressures and could easily and instantly amputate any part of a body placed therein.

    You have been given explicit instructions that you must operate the lever with both hands although it can be pulled using just one. You have also been given productions goals.

    For the sake of production alone, would you seriously consider placing one hand in the press while keeping the other on the lever?

    Let’s say a piece rolled a little out of your reach? Would you really place your head and torso or a leg into the press while keeping one hand on that lever?

    Seems pretty damn silly to do so, doesn’t it?

    I greatly appreciate your anti-dogmatic approach but there are some things that are beyond semantics and definitions.

    You don’t hear a lot of people arguing about seatbelts and airbags anymore and when you do, their judgement is immediately suspect. Right?

    You mentioned PPE. One could go on all sorts of tangents about when it is appropriate to wear what but who is to say? Who is to say at what distance and in what position it is ok to one hand? Let common sense be the guide? Sorry to say that isn’t good enough.

    When you look at the numbers from a much broader point of view, the evidence is clear that one handing causes problems. You are correct in that we engage in a number of hazardous activities in the trade but why not try to reduce exposure where we can? That is how the standards get written in the first place. We don’t (as and industry) accept free climbing anymore either yet you are making the same arguments about production. This is nonsense.

    Everybody thinks they are above average and possesses better judgement than everyone else.

    The laws of physics are not obliged to follow your intentions.

    Just some thoughts…

    Respectfully,

    Erik Sveum

    Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge—Carl Sagan

  4. Do you know what a Strawman argument is bro? Also, one-handing is a very dangerous technique, and I DO NOT recommend it…
    Always appreciate the feedback, thanks for listening…

    – Patrick

  5. Patrick,

    Thanks! I do know the Strawman argument as well as that little ad hominiem one. I also know what Illusory Superiority means in addition to the Dunning-Kruger Effect. I am also familiar with Immanuel Kant and the Categorical Imperative. I also have a fair grasp on John Stuart Mill’s Ultilitarianism.You aren’t the first arborist to study philosophy, bro. I love that you quote Nietzsche. Not many can or would appropriately.

    I really do appreciate your style and what you are doing with the site. Honestly. We desperately need minds and voices like yours to challenge perceived norms. I’ve made a career of doing just that, albeit much less publicly until now. That being said, with such a following, you have a responsibility to promulgate the best practices.

    I appreciate too that you are opening a dialogue on this particular matter but I think the debate should be closed. Just another man’s opinion.

    We should really have a beer together sometime. My treat.

    E

  6. I listened to your pod cast today. I agree that one handed use of a top handle chainsaw is dangerous and should be avoided as much as is practicable. If it is outlawed, in Ontario, I don’t think we have or will have much choice but to comply, especially when it comes to W.S.I.B. and work place injuries.I do believe they have some data on injuries specifically associated with one handed use. You are correct, this is a dangerous industry and if they outlaw every single thing that can injure us or worse, then we will be doing something else for a living. Believe me they are, in this jurisdiction, thinking about doing crazy stuff to make tree work safe. It is only by people from the industry, speaking up and getting involved that we can keep the crazy stuff to a minimum. Think about this, the people who make the rules for our workplace know nothing about climbing and working on trees. Thanks for your informative talk and I look forward to listening in the future.

  7. Thank you, Patrick, for putting this issue on the table to examine objectively. I believe one of the problems with getting proper perspective of one-handing is that it is presented as the ‘only’ way to use a chainsaw safely. But take gun safety as an example. The dangers of misusing a gun are I believe on the same level as the dangers of misusing a chainsaw. In gun safety training, there are at least four practices we learn “never” to do (never point at person, finger never on trigger until ready to shoot, cartridge never in the chamber until ready, safety always on until ready to shoot). In practice, a gun owner may compromise one of the rules when he is sure he is still safe due to the other safety practices. Even so, in chainsaw use there are at least six practices we learn “always” to do (use two hands, for sure, but also keep our head out of line with the bar, avoid touching wood with the kickback portion of the tip of the bar, wear a helmet, be tied in twice, and have balanced secure positioning). In certain situations we can violate one or rarely even two of these when we know we are still safe due to the other precautions. One-handing never hurts anyone. It’s when you one-hand a saw AND kickback AND have your unprotected head in line with the bar, or one-hand PLUS lose your balance on the follow-through AND sever your only safety.

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